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23 comments:
There is not prove what you have claim , for Umer Bin AlKattab......lineage..... this refernce is for saeed bin Zayed
so i m again saying prove Myhammad Bin Saib alkalbi sabae is a trustworthy sunni scholar ..(it is my chellenge to yu)
and prove with valid reference what you have write in long story about mother of nufail(son of his fathers daughter) , khatab(son of his fathers daughter) and Umar (son of khatab daughter) ,
this is not prove what you have claim in a long story narrated by kalbi sabae
i again chellenge you prove Muhammad bin Saib Al Kalbi a trustworthy Sunni scholar
and provide reference for your claim Nufail son of his fathers Daughter , Khattab son of his father's daughter , Umer son of His Father's daughter......this is your claim
above reference is for the Grand Father of saeed bin zayed , Amr who married his mother , not Khattab...... still with this refernce Khatab is a legitmate son...
Dear Zubair,
This is not a forum to debate on this Issue. You can debate on ShiaForums.com, shiachat.com or any other shia forum. There are many such forums where you can go and challenge people. I know only one thing that this book is written by a Sunni Scholar. This is a sunni who has presented this SHAJRA of Mr. Umar. Why don't you go and contact the author and publisher and discuss this issue of "Legitimate Son" with them? For us, it does not affect our belief in Mr. Umar if he is Legitimate or Illegitimate. We only know that the enemies of Alh-al-Bayt are all Jahannami whether Legitimate of Illegitimate.
Thank you.
And then does a mans later actions do not prove his worth ?
He set out to kill the Rasool with an open sword in hand .
He beat his sister and her husband till she started bleeding .
He beat abu horairah the greatest narrator of false ahadees .
While he made abu horairah (former beggar)a governor then forced him to return 10,000 he cheated to the exchecker .
He with his six thugs on orders from abu bakr attacked the door of Nabi's only child with burning logs , killed her child in the womb and injured her so that she martyred of brocken ribs in 3 months .
He was instrumental in the confiscation of Fadak and when abu bakar tried to repent, he found out, tore the document the lesser evil had prepared .
With so many heinous crimes he fled in the midst of the Ohad battle while the Rasool e kareem was fallen injured in a pit . This act as per Qora'an makes a man infidal , apostate and fit for Jahannum only .
So many CRIMES who will say he was not the son of a WALADDUZZINAH ? >
He was viewed by Sunni Muslims as a hadith Master, foremost philologist, linguist,
and man of letters.
For detaits visit...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Qutaybah
O.K.
Dear Anonymous,
If Umar was really a hadith master,philologist,linguist and man of letters etc etc etc. Could u please tell me the number of hadiths narrated by Umar( found in Sunni books), any of his book on literature ,any of his famous letters where he had explore the discussion on Tauheed,Nabuwat and Qiyamat.
No my dear you I am sure u will not be able to present any of his famous work in these field.
Hazrat Ali(a.s.) was the greatest Scholar and narrator of traditions after Holy Prophet(sawa). His famous book compiled by Sayyed Razi is Nahjul Balagha where u would find masterpiece of literature and highest level of Arabic eloquence.In it u would find Sermons, Letters and sayings of Hazrat Ali(as).
Holy Prophet(sawa) has rightly said : "I am the city of Knowledge and Ali is its Gate"
If Umar was a great hadith master then Why the number of traditions found in Sunni books narrated by Umar are too less in comparision to Abu Huraira and Ayesha. Why????
Dear Abdullah,
Thank you for the comment. But I would like to draw your attention towards this link that dear anonymous provided
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Qutaybah
Anonymous was saying that stuff regarding Ibn Qutaybah and not about Mr. Khattab. Ibn Qutaybah is the author of this book "Al Ma'arif".
I thank you dear Anonymous for providing the reference of Wikipedia and the opinion of Sunnis regarding Ibn Qutaybah.
Thank u Abu Talha for correcting me.
I thought the concern person was talking about Umar.
Yes Ibn Qutaybah is a great name in Sunni World and he had said the about things about Umar in his famous work "al Ma'arif".
shia gandu hai
Meherbani kar ke gali na istemaal kare , agar jawab de sakte hai to sabit kare ke jo likha hai galat hai.
You guys are really filthy. Is this what you learned from the lives of Holy Prophet and His companions? Using abusive and obscene language is the SUNNAH of MUAWIYAH & YAZEED and you are really a SUNNI of MUAWIYAH. Shame on you.
apney purkhon ka aik bhi jayez baap ya rishta ya shajra bata do main bhi wahabi ho jaoonga :)
Aisha bhi aik kutiya thi .... aur tumhari maa aur behen bhi kuttiyaan hain ... kothay ki paidawaar .. gashtian saaali ..... Aisha was jealous of BIBI Fatima AS ... go and read your own sahi bukhari ......
This is their way , They only write false praise and when proved wrong , they come to abuses , this is their way , this is their religion . Open internet , ask in google , you will find , abu bakr was a habitual abuser,Omar was very aggressive , so what you expect from their worsippers
Salam to all ,
I am here to see if all the things you are saying is right or not and for your answer I got a link here http://gift2shias.com/2013/06/03/lineage-of-omar-bin-al-khattab-may-allah-be-pleased-with-him/ and we can discuss it further if you don't mind my goal is to get to the truth and solve the misunderstandings between everybody .I am not trying to be on a side but trying to see what truth is. I'd love to see your answer and views about it and I'll try to provide you with more info when I'll get..
May Allah bless us all and let us be on right path..
بسم الله الرحمن الرحیم
محمد بن فضيل، عن سالم بن أبي حفصة قال: سألت أبا جعفر وابنه جعفرا عن أبي بكر وعمر، فقال: يا سالم تولهما، وابرأ من عدوهما، فإنهما كانا إمامَي هدى. ثم قال جعفر: يا سالم، أيسب الرجل جده؟ أبو بكر جدي، لا نالتني شفاعة محمد -صلى الله عليه وسلم- يوم القيامة إن لم أكن أتولاهما، وأبرأ من عدوهما .
الشريعة امام الاجري حدیث 1856 ص 2378
Salim bin Abi Hafsa said: I asked Aba Jafar and his son Jafar about Abubakr and Omar. He said: O Salim, befriend them and dissociate yourself from their enemies as they were the two Imams of guidance. Then Jafar said: O Salim! does anyone abuses his grandfather? Abubakr is my grandfather. May I don’t get the intercession of Mohammad (saw) on the day of judgement if I don’t love them and if I don’t dissociate myself from their enemies. [Isnad Hasan]
Dear Mr. Anonymous,
Walaikum assalaam,
The reply to ur question regarding the lineage of Umar on an anti shia website is this :
1. First of all you see how abusive the author is in that article that everywhere he had mentioned their brothers in faith-Shias with abusive name i.e Rafidha. If a person is so biased and hateful that he is not ready to call the shias of Ali by their original name how much trust you can have in his research work???!!!
Did you ever find anything against Sunnis in our website. We have never criticised the sunnis and neither we had criticised any sunni scholar on the basis of their faith.
Our critcism of Umar is based on the clear proofs found in both shia and sunni books.
We have never accepted any biased report nor have we believed in any one off tradition found in any unknown book of any unknown author.
We had proved many blunders of Umar from sihah e sitta which is accepted by all the scholars of Sunnis as the most authentic books of traditions.
2. The author of that anti shia website had criticized the revered scholar of Shias- Allamah Majlisi and had abused him and called him a liar just because he belonged to shia faith.
Is this the way to talk and debate ???
3. I challenged these stupid website makers to show me a scholar of that calibre in your faith.
4. Simply denying anybodys research on the basis of his faith is neither scholarly nor ethical.
5. One very important point which I want to add here is whenever these so called scholars could not defend their stand they had an easy escape by accusing the narrator of the tradition as a Rafidha.
6. I asked these so called scholars if the narrator is an unknown person or majhool or a rafidha then why have they included the tradition in their book.
7.We Shias are different in this matter. Allama Majlisi had collected a vast numbers of traditions found in shias and sunni books available in his time.( Refer Bihar ul Anwar)
He( may Allah blessed him) never claimed that the traditions found in his books are all 100% correct. He left it for future generation scholars to research and study the biographies of narrators( ILME RIJAL) and then classify the traditions accordingly.That is the reason the door of Ijtehad( Scholarly research) is still open in Shia religion while it had been closed long back by the Sunnis. That is the reasons todays sunnis are confused and dont know what to do when they see conflicting reports.
As far as matter of Lineage of Umar is concerned. Sorry to say but this is true that he was not of good lineage and this is accepted even by Umar in his last moment of his life ( For detail refer Tabaqaat ibn Saad page 120 ). Umar confessed that his mother was not a good woman. ( Please note : Ibn Saad is a Sunni Scholar)
For reference : visit :
http://umar-ibn-khattab.blogspot.com/2013/08/umar-ke-aakhari-alfaaz-sunni-reference.html
Simply shouting on the top of voice and accusing Shias of creating stories are not going to change the fact.
8. Last but not the least our sunni scholars have the tendency to negate all the good work done by the shia scholars on the basis of their faith while we shias never see the personality or the faith of the person in the matter of religion. We see the trustworthiness and honesty of the scholar and the narrators in order to reach the conclusion.( It doesnt make any difference whether the person is a Shia or Sunni)
Mr. Anonymous,
Our Imams could never say anything in praise of Umar and Abu Bakr because Umar and Abu Bakr were not appointed by Holy Prophet(SAWA).
Hazrat Ali(AS) was appointed Successor of Prophet(SAWA) at Ghadeer e Khum and Umar was the first to congratulate him. In spite of that these two usurped the Caliphate of Ali at Saqifa when Ali(AS) was busy in the burial of the whole body of Prophet(SAWA).
Hazrat Ali(AS) did not approve the election of Abu Bakr at Saqifa. Due to this behavior of Ali(AS) , he was forced by the Government for the pledge of allegiance. Janabe Fatima(AS) demanded FADAK which was not given to her due to which she got angry with these two( Refer Sahih Bukhari) and did not talk to them till she died due to the wound inflicted on her when Umar and his supporter attacked her house.( The incident of burning of door is found in many shia and sunni books )
Ali(AS) buried her in the midnight and kept her grave a secret- which is unknown even today.
Ali(AS) severely criticized Umar and Abu Bakr in his famous Sermon of Shiqshiqqya( Sermon no. 3, Nahjul Balagha )
We have hundred of traditions from our holy Imams in our books which proves that the Caliphate of Umar and Abu Bakr were Incorrect.
Seeing the vast numbers of traditions found in shia books against Umar and Abu Bakr and studying the known historical facts, the tradition quoted by you in praise of Umar and Abu Bakr does not hold ground !!!!
How did you arrive to the conclusion that the tradition has a hasan isnad???
Do you still think we shias are going to believe in the weak tradition quoted by you in praise of Umar and Abu Bakr ????
Assalam o Alaikum.
Reading the first three paragraphs were enough to make me (not only me, but every true Muslim) realize that this Article about the Lineage of Umar Ibn Khattab is wrong. Lies are gathered together. The references given are from such Sources which can not be deemed Correct. If the source is unreliable, rather based on "lies", how can this article be based on truth?
Muhammad PBUH said that if there had to be next messenger after me, it would be Umar ibn Khattab. It is also mentioned in Hadiths that all Messengers had a Clean Lineage, with no filth in it. If Muhammad said that Umar would have been a Messenger, if Allah had allowed next Messenger after him, then obviously the Lineage of Umar ibn Khattab is as Clean as any other Messenger.
It is concluded that the above given Lineage of Umar ibn Khattab is wrong, and shall not be distributed, rather Deleted by the Admin of this Page. Thank you
Wa Alaikum Assalaam,
Dear Baber Khan,
The above Lineage of Umar is found in Sunni Books.Now you have to answer why your sunni scholars have incuded such lineage about Umar in their books.
Secondly ,
The Hadith quoted by you regarding 'Umar would have been the prophet'is a fabricated one.
Logical Reasons :
What qualities did Umar have that would give him a position of a Prophet if Prophethood had not finished on our Beloved Prophet?
As far as I know about Umar, the qualities which Umar had before accepting Islam.
01.He was idol-worshipper
02. He used to drink alcohol
03. He even took his sword and was going to kill our Prophet pbuh
Now Just tell me Were any of these qualities present in any Prophet before he was given Prophethood by Allah
Proofs from Quran :
Hazrat Ibrahim Broke Idols. (Following Sunnat of Hazrat Ibrahim , Hazrat Muhammad pbuh and Hazrat Imam Ali Broke Idols in Al-Kaaba)
Hazrat Yahya and Hazrat Isa . In Al-Quran it is clearly mentioned that Allah peace is on them the day they were born, the day they will die and the Day when they will be resurrected again!
.
Just Give me one example from Al-Quran of Such a Prophet who had worshipped idols before he was given Prophethood and then proof the authenticity of that fake ahadith of Umar
I have seen the blood of hussain dripping from the swords of the sons of sahaba, how can i then believe the sunni version that after the prophet, the sahaba respected and honoured the family of the prophet.!!!
let me say one final thing: "
Quran and Ahlul Bayt VS Quran and Sunnah
If they say it is Quran and Sunnah, the first one to reject this concept was Umar on our Holy Prophet's (S) death bed. When Umar said "The Quran is enough for us" it means he has thrown the Prophet's (S) sunnah away does it not?
So if the hadith says "quran and sunnah", Umar does not follow it. If is says "Quran and Ahlul Bayt" Umar does not follow it, so I would like to know what did Umar ever follow?
To go even further we must ask ourselves who do the followers of Umar follow???
Umar or the Prophet (S)?
Asslam u alekum all dear.
Allah k Rasool s.a.w ne abu bkar r.a ko apny mslla imamt pr any ka kaha tha. and yad rahy Rasool Allah s.a.w ki zindagi main hi abubkr siddique r.a ny 17 nimazen parhaen.esi bna par un ki ta'zem krty hue un ko ist khlifa maan lia gya and unhon ne apny bad Umer r.a ka name select kia jis ka unhen ikhtyar sb ny dia tha jis ka ap name den gy wo qably qabol ho ga.unhon ny umar r.a ko select kia k main soft tbiat insaan tha ab islam ko sarbulandi k lie hard nature khlifa ki zrorat hai jo umer se behtr koi nai.and and Hazrat Ali r.a ki apni fazilat hai un jesa bahadur pury arab main koi ni pura arab 1 tarf and hazrat Ali r.a 1 trf.hazrat Ali ny b abubkr r.a and umr r.a ko accept kia .agr wo galt hoty tu ALI r.a kbi compromize na krty yeh un k eman ki baat thi.agr aj koi un par ungli uthay tu us ny hazrat Ali k iman par shak kia and unhen galt kaha.khilafat ki ye tarteeb balehaz age main senior k b ho skti hai .4 khlifa ki khilafat rashda main kai raz hain.jis ko jitni samj hai wo utna smjta hai.and ju trteeb bni bilkul correct bni.aj k muslman ka eman hazrat Ali r.a k eman sy bettr ni jo esy ghuman main parhty ho.Un logon ki shan main gustakhi jin ko Allah k nabi and islam ny izat di ho ap islam and eman sy kharij kr dy gi.so be carefull
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